Iran to import gas from Azerbaijan!!!!!!!

[Afshin]

I don't get this, how foolish, Azerbaijan extract oil and gas from the Caspian Sea and then sell the gas to Iran (i.e. parts of the caspian sea belong to Iran), why isn't Iran extracting oil and gas from the caspian sea themselves!  Iran has the second largest gas reserves in the world after Russia.

PTV - Iran has reportedly voiced its interest in importing significant amounts of gas from the second phase of Azerbaijan's Shah-Deniz gas field.

The Iranian Deputy Oil Minister and the General Manager of Iran's state gas company have held talks with the State Oil Company of Azerbaijan (SOCAR) over importing "some seriously large volumes from Shah-Deniz's second phase," Reuters quoted an Azeri government source as saying.

The source said that the talks were held in Baku over the last two days, adding that Iran could continue its discussions with the operators of the gas field.

The second phase of Shah-Deniz, worth $10 billion, is expected to come on stream between 2012 and 2013.

Shah-Deniz, located in the south of the Caspian Sea, is Azerbaijan's largest oil field. It produces nearly one million cubic meters of gas per day and has reserves of 1.2 trillion cubic meters.

Oil giant BP and Norway's Statoil are the major shareholders in Shah-Deniz. SOCAR, Russia's LUKOIL, France's Total, the National Iranian Oil Company and Turkey's National Oil and Gas Company each hold a 10 percent stake in the field.

[ali_europe]

I don't get this, how foolish, Azerbaijan extract oil and gas from the Caspian Sea and then sell the gas to Iran (i.e. parts of the caspian sea belong to Iran), why isn't Iran extracting oil and gas from the caspian sea themselves!  Iran has the second largest gas reserves in the world after Russia.

PTV - Iran has reportedly voiced its interest in importing significant amounts of gas from the second phase of Azerbaijan's Shah-Deniz gas field.

The Iranian Deputy Oil Minister and the General Manager of Iran's state gas company have held talks with the State Oil Company of Azerbaijan (SOCAR) over importing "some seriously large volumes from Shah-Deniz's second phase," Reuters quoted an Azeri government source as saying.

The source said that the talks were held in Baku over the last two days, adding that Iran could continue its discussions with the operators of the gas field.

The second phase of Shah-Deniz, worth $10 billion, is expected to come on stream between 2012 and 2013.

Shah-Deniz, located in the south of the Caspian Sea, is Azerbaijan's largest oil field. It produces nearly one million cubic meters of gas per day and has reserves of 1.2 trillion cubic meters.

Oil giant BP and Norway's Statoil are the major shareholders in Shah-Deniz. SOCAR, Russia's LUKOIL, France's Total, the National Iranian Oil Company and Turkey's National Oil and Gas Company each hold a 10 percent stake in the field.

I once heard that Iran sell its gas on international market for a better price and buy from countries close to IRANIAN boarder some gas with small transportation costs ...for example if you need gas for Urumiyeh or Azarbaijan gharbi province or regions in northwest Iran which are extremly close to Azerbaidjan the transport costs would be smaller than pumping it from iranian gas producing zones....so at same time the iranian gas can be sold for a good price on internsational market .....so if I'm not wrong it is mostly business reasons behind it

and caspian sea gas issue there are still lot of unanswered questions, since there are still huge discussions about the exact boarder....since after downfall of soviet union lot of the neighbouring countries still discuss on who is allowed to use which zones!!!!!!

[Afshin]

ali_europe jaan

it appears that all Caspian Sea countries are exploring the sea for oil and gas except Iran, so no one is waiting for the outcome of any negotiation, I think Iran has mismanaged the situation and has fallen behind its neighbours.  Lets face it, if Iran was extracting oil and gan from caspian sea in the same manner as Azerbaijan are then we would be able to supply Iran's north west with oil and gas from Caspian sea rather than Khuzestan or Persian Gulf saving transportation cost, the point is Iran's neighbours are taking all the oil and gas from caspian sea while Iran is doing nothing, they even buy caspin sea gas from Azerbaijan while they could just go a few miles down the sea and into Iranian waters and extract the same gas themselves and use it free.

[ali_europe]

ali_europe jaan

it appears that all Caspian Sea countries are exploring the sea for oil and gas except Iran, so no one is waiting for the outcome of any negotiation, I think Iran has mismanaged the situation and has fallen behind its neighbours.  Lets face it, if Iran was extracting oil and gan from caspian sea in the same manner as Azerbaijan are then we would be able to supply Iran's north west with oil and gas from Caspian sea rather than Khuzestan or Persian Gulf saving transportation cost, the point is Iran's neighbours are taking all the oil and gas from caspian sea while Iran is doing nothing, they even buy caspin sea gas from Azerbaijan while they could just go a few miles down the sea and into Iranian waters and extract the same gas themselves and use it free.

it is not as easy as it sounds like...the problem is the following thing....till crash of soviet union there was clear which is IRANIAN water and which is Soviet water..... the new republics say IRAN should stay behind the same boarder line had before end of soviet union........Iranians want to declare a part of former soviet water to international water, which would allow IRAN to go to new zones for searching for gas or fishing....at same time let not forget that there are different navies operating in the caspian sea...Azerbaijan and other countries around the caspean sea say, the former soviet water should be divided between the former soviet republic and IRAN shouldn't get any part, since IRAN wasn't in soviet union and therefore IRAN should stay behind the border IRAN and soviets had...they accuse IRAN of trying to take advantage of end of soviet union and expand to former soviet waters..if you put yourself at their situation, you have at least admit, that their point is also something which can't be discussed even we IRANIANS don't like it

except all these discussions TURKEY and USA are supporting Azerbaijan and Turkey even offers to send Turkish fighters to Azeraijan.... at same time Russians have warned all involved nations to keep calm and don't cause a conflict, which would allow USA to become a part of problem, since USA already has some bases in some of the republics around caspian sea....and since right now Russian navy still is the absolute strongest power in caspian sea, Russian want to prevent any involvement of Turkeyand USA...........

so if you look at it, you see it isn't as easy as some people might think....I'm not a fan of IRI, but right now situation in caspian sea is full of questions and in reallity what Azeris are doing is to search oil in former soviet waters....it will be very hard for IRAn to justify IRAN's right to get gas from there

so the major question is!who is right? it is very hard to judge that neutral

[ali_europe]

Afshin jan..it is not as easy as it sounds like...the problem is the following thing....till crash of soviet union there was clear which part of caspian sea would be IRANIAN water and which is Soviet water..... the new countries like azerbaijan say IRAN should stay behind the same boarder line which existed before the end of soviet union........Iranians want to declare a part of former soviet waters to international water, which would of course allow IRAN to go to these new zones for searching for gas or even fishing....at same time let not forget that there are different navies operating in the caspian sea...Azerbaijan and other countries around the caspean sea say, the former soviet waters should be divided only between the former soviet republics and in their logic IRAN shouldn't get any part, since IRAN wasn't in soviet union and the IRANIAN boarders are clearly known through contracts between IRAN/soviet union in past and therefore they believe IRAN should stay behind the former borders of IRAN and soviet union ...they accuse IRAN of trying to take advantage of end of soviet union and the fights among former soviet unions to expand IRANIAN boarder or to declare some former soviet waters to international zone......if you put yourself at their situation, you have to admit, that their point is also something which can be discussed even we IRANIANS might not like it

except all these discussions TURKEY and USA are supporting Azerbaijan and even offers to send Turkish fighters to Azerbaijan.... at same time Russians have warned all involved nations to keep calm and don't cause a conflict, which would allow USA to become a part of problem, since USA already has some bases in some of the republics around caspian sea....and since right now Russian navy still is the absolute strongest power in caspian sea, Russian want to prevent any involvement of Turkeyand USA...........

so if you look at it, you see it isn't as easy as some people might think....I'm not a fan of IRI, but right now situation in caspian sea is full of questions and in reallity what Azeris are doing is to search oil in former soviet waters....it will be very hard for IRAn to justify IRAN's right to get gas from there

so the major question is!who is right? it is very hard to judge that neutral

[Afshin]

ali_europe jaan

is there a problem with Iran extracting oil and gas from their own caspian sea territory which is known to be Iranian waters? (forget the bits that belonged to former USSR, only the part that is part of Iran).

[ali_europe]

ali_europe jaan

is there a problem with Iran extracting oil and gas from their own caspian sea territory which is known to be Iranian waters? (forget the bits that belonged to former USSR, only the part that is part of Iran).

Afshin jan.. as you see the issue is very complicated and lot of powers with different interessts are involved in this game.....from the part known as Iranian water only IRAN can get oil or gas...I remember some 2-3 years ago some Azeri fishing ships where accidently(or maybe purposefully) trying to fish some Khaviar very close to IRANIAN water and I think they cross the border, but IRAN coast guard emidiadtly forced them to leave IRANIAN water... so don't worry about the today's official IRANIAN part....whatever which sure belongs to IRAN, will be defended by IRANIANS

the major problem is that the biggest part of the oil and gas seems to be in the part which Azeris declare as their waters... that's why IRAN and even Russia want to force Azerbaijan to declare those parts weather as international waters or being divided under new conditions, so then of course IRAN and Russia would have access to that part....

Azeris point is that since Caspian sea is not an open water with acces to OCEAN like Persian gulf or Oman sea, it would be against international law to create international water there....

these are the positions of involving countries (till now some UN international right experts tend to be closer to Azeri's position, but cuz of pressure of IRAN and specially huge pressure of RUSSIA till now prevent United natuions to have an official position on this: specially since Russian send strong signals to Turks and USA and telling those nations, that it would have serious consequences for them if they would try to be involved in the story by sending any troops to support Azerbaijan

Azerbaijan position: the boarder of IRAN and soviet union is clear and known...the former soviet parts should be devided between former soviet republic...to make their position become a fact, Azeris started with some gas and oil searching operation in the part, they declare as Azerbaidjan water

Western position: western governments are closer to Azerbaijan government and of course prefer to deal with Azeris instead of being dependent on Russia or IRAN

Russian position: no western power should have acces to the recources of caspian sea and Russia as the natural successor of soviet union should have at least acces to oil and gas with equal right than other caspian nations, therefore Russians prefer a solution with international water, so they could do their business

Iran's position: since the biggest oil and gas recources are in the part, which before belonged to soviet union, IRAN believe since soviet union doesn't exist any more the entire border issue should be disccued and the borders be changed if neccessary (specially since most countries around Caspian sea except IRAN and Russia aren't strong...IRAN hope that by cooperation with Russia, IRAN and Russia could get a bigger access to the oil and gas in the region and at same time stop US influence on caspian sea


as you see, the story can be discussed in different way:

a) emotionaly

b) by using the law of jungle(the stronger is right)

c)by nationalism(just defend the position of your own nation, no matter who's right or wrong)

d) by keeping the last existing borders right before colapse of soviet union and just devide the soviet part between former soviet republic...

e) by defending the position that actually azerbaijan was once a part of IRAN, so IRAN lost those regions unfairly to Russian empire..some people might say try every thing to take advantage of today's situation and get some benefit for IRAN, even by ignoring UN

so as I said before it is really hard to stay neutral...I don't like the fact that Azeris are so close to USA, but at other hand borders are a very hot issue and things can very fast end up in conflicts, if we start to leave neutrality and observe issues onesided

[Afshin]

ali_europe jaan, thanks for your reply

With regard to the latter part of your post, it would be pointless for Iran to look at this issue emotionally or nationally, they would get them nowhere, Iran has to use facts, evidence, history, UN and law to present an argument.

I am surprised to hear or to read in your latest reply that Azerbaijan has the area of caspian sea with the most oil and gas.  Lets remind ourselves that Caspian Sea is actually a LAKE since its not connected to an Ocean, Caspian Lake is referred to as Caspian Sea simply because its the biggest lake in the world.

If you look at oil reserves in the middle east and Persian Gulf you will find that there is oil in a very wide area, much much wider and larger area than that of caspian sea, I am puzzled about the oil and gas in the caspian sea being concentrated in the Azeri corner only!  If thats the case then there can't be that much gas or oil in there, I really find that hard to believe!  The Azeri area is not that large compared with the Middle East, so how much oil and gas are we talking about, how does Iran know how much reserves they have in their territorial waters, what explorations have they done?

[ali_europe]

ali_europe jaan, thanks for your reply

With regard to the latter part of your post, it would be pointless for Iran to look at this issue emotionally or nationally, they would get them nowhere, Iran has to use facts, evidence, history, UN and law to present an argument.

I am surprised to hear or to read in your latest reply that Azerbaijan has the area of caspian sea with the most oil and gas.  Lets remind ourselves that Caspian Sea is actually a LAKE since its not connected to an Ocean, Caspian Lake is referred to as Caspian Sea simply because its the biggest lake in the world.

If you look at oil reserves in the middle east and Persian Gulf you will find that there is oil in a very wide area, much much wider and larger area than that of caspian sea, I am puzzled about the oil and gas in the caspian sea being concentrated in the Azeri corner only!  If thats the case then there can't be that much gas or oil in there, I really find that hard to believe!  The Azeri area is not that large compared with the Middle East, so how much oil and gas are we talking about, how does Iran know how much reserves they have in their territorial waters, what explorations have they done?

Afshin jan...
actually the weird thing is that each source show another amount of oil and gas in caspian sea .....
some US studies tells the amount of oil in caspian sea would be huge, some european studies mention that the caspian oil is lot smaller comparing to oil reserves of southern IRAN and persian gulf....
some believed also that american oil company tried to manipulate the Azeris by make them believe that there would be a huge money to make if they would sign a contract with american companies

I have read lot of articles on this topic... so far by the border issues the positions and interessts of each involved country is easyier to analyze than the real amount of oil....

since when it comes to oil and gas reserves each side have different interessts by publishing their statistics!

Americans have an interesst to show that Azeris have the biggest reserves, so the stocks of US companies involved would go up

Russians  have an interessts to show the oil reserves aren't as huge as expected, so the importance of the issue would not be overrated by western media and also the oil price would keep high, cuz once the market would feel huge amount of oil would be available, the price could change to lower

there are so many statistics on the size of the oil and gas reserves in caspian sea, but since noone of involved countries can be fully neutral, it is almost impossible to know which side has the biggest reserve, except you would have some insider infos

for myself...I am fine if the boarders wouldn't change much and stay the way the were during IRAN-soviet union neighbourhood and I don't care much how Azeris or others divide the soviet parts among themselves as long as nobody cross the iranian waters(that's for me the red line) and if I would be IRAN I wouldn't scare Azeris so much, cuz else they all will open their country to american troops and that's not smart for IRAN's long therm interessts in the region

It makes me very angry that Yankees again and again try to open military bases in the region and I think IRAN and Russia should do every thing to prevent that... I don't think the caspian oil is as huge as they say in the western media (of course I can't prove this cuz I have no acces to real insider infos of the oil companies) but I try to analyze it by observing the development.....if the caspian resources were as huge as american media want us to believe than it is hard to understand why soon or later oil price would come down(since such facts couldn't be hidden to real insiders and oil companies) the current huge oil price and the huge military operations of USA in IRAQ and Persian gulf proves to me that the most important oil reserves are still in middle east and mostly around Persian gulf (and I think yankees know that very well)

[Afshin]

ali_europe jaan

yes your assumptions in your latest reply make sense, no one can be certain about the truth but Iran should not accept what western media or the Russians say, if Iran are capable of determining what reserves there are in their own terrirotial waters of caspian sea then they must do their own studies, the whole northern region of Iran from Azarbaijan to Khorasan could be supplied with oil and gas from caspian sea if Iran could exract oil and gas from their own waters, such investment is only worth it if there is enough reserves down there, right now Azeris are extracting gas and oil that might well be linked to reserves under Iranian waters, we don't know what lies under the ground in caspian sea but it is a possibility the Azeris are selling what's EQUALLY our oil and gas.

[ali_europe]

ali_europe jaan

yes your assumptions in your latest reply make sense, no one can be certain about the truth but Iran should not accept what western media or the Russians say, if Iran are capable of determining what reserves there are in their own terrirotial waters of caspian sea then they must do their own studies, the whole northern region of Iran from Azarbaijan to Khorasan could be supplied with oil and gas from caspian sea if Iran could exract oil and gas from their own waters, such investment is only worth it if there is enough reserves down there, right now Azeris are extracting gas and oil that might well be linked to reserves under Iranian waters, we don't know what lies under the ground in caspian sea but it is a possibility the Azeris are selling what's EQUALLY our oil and gas.

very well said...as you said specially by extracting in neighbouring zones one side sometimes could link to reserves of other neighbouring regions....that's one of the major reasons why Russia and IRAN want to not allow americans to come to region, cuz else dozen of US companies will try to suck oil legally or illegaly however possible....

even the boarder question would be answered, the linking of neighbouring zones would stay a real challenge...there must be some regional's agreement on how the linking between different gas recources could be solved.... thats one of reasons while in contracts between soviet union and IRAN even as borders where clearly known, extracting of gas and oil was only allowed in limited amounts and in clearly known zones both side could controll.....

that's why a regional meeting is needed to answer all the complex questions...and no matter which country would declare which part to their own waters, there must be a agreement of not allowing any foriegn troops being moved to region....if any side would try to bring troops from USA or NATO as supporters to the game, IRAN and RUSSIA as the two big powers around Caspian must do every thing and if necessary use pressure to not allow US troops being in caspian region....if the yankees US would be able to have their navy on caspian water, the tension would get to a new level

[Afshin]

ali_europe jaan

The US has already interfered and done damage to Iran by blocking Azerbaijan's oil pipeline going through Iran, as you will know the Azeris were forced by the US to link their oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea to the Mediteranean Sea through Georgia and Turkey whilst the shortest route was through Iran and Turkey, this robs Iran of decades of revenue for Azeri pipeline going through Iranian terriroty, unfortunately the damage done to Iran for their hostility towards the US will be felt for decades or ceturies to come and Iran has already been suffering for 30 years.

[ali_europe]

ali_europe jaan

The US has already interfered and done damage to Iran by blocking Azerbaijan's oil pipeline going through Iran, as you will know the Azeris were forced by the US to link their oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea to the Mediteranean Sea through Georgia and Turkey whilst the shortest route was through Iran and Turkey, this robs Iran of decades of revenue for Azeri pipeline going through Iranian terriroty, unfortunately the damage done to Iran for their hostility towards the US will be felt for decades or ceturies to come and Iran has already been suffering for 30 years.

well, the major problem is as a third world nation with huge oil and gas reserves...IRAN ha two choices

1.have a satelite government which follow orders from washington and after a while a small part of population would be rich and celebrate parties in north tehran daily, while millions of people would have nothing and huge number of our formers would leave their villages to sell some toys and cigarettes in street of tehran

2. or to fight vs US influence in the region and step by step improve IRAN's industrial and farming sector and also improve IRAN's defence sector...choosing this way needs to courage to resist huge western presure....although I abslutly agree that IRI is a stupid religious dictatorship, but still in long therm better than a western puppet like shah........ the sadest moment in our history was the destuction of democracy in IRAN in 1953 by americans and roalists.... if that wouldn't happen...lot of today's troubles in IRAN and middle east wouldn't ever happen....

for current today evenwe might not be big fans of IRI, but when it comes to issues which have an effect on IRAN national strategical interessts like right of using the nuclear technology we Iranians must be united and fully support the rights of our country...for the domestic problems inside IRAN we need public pressure on government for changes and democratization (which of course will not be easy)

[ali_europe]

ooops I made few typing mistakes

 of course I meant

A) farmers and not formers

B) royalists and not roalists